2016-Mai: E-mail conversation with Urmas Pai regarding arbitrary application of the law.
From: Otto de Voogd To: Urmas Pai Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 01:53:38 +0200 Subject: Teabenõue: Arbitrary application of the law
Dear Mr. Pai, Under Estonia's public information act, known in Estonian as a teabenõue, I hereby request the information listed below from the Estonian Financial Intelligence Unit. Since you are the person dealing with these issues, you seemed the most appropriate person to send this request to, but if you are not able to answer it, then please pass it on to someone who can. I have a strong feeling that the law you applied to me, and which now stands in full glory by virtue of the supreme court ruling, is not being applied to other parties in Estonia at all. This is what would be called arbitrary application of the law. Arbitrary application of the law would be a strong basis for the human rights complaint that I still intend to file against Estonia over your actions against me. Therefore I ask you to clarify what the legal basis is for the FIU not applying the alternative means of payment law to funderbeam: The website states at https://www.com/legal_terms states the following: 1.1. Funderbeam OÜ (“Funderbeam”) is a limited liability company registered in Estonia with registration number 12495417. 1.2. Funderbeam is not a financial institution, is currently not under direct supervision of a financial regulator and does not provide investment services, investment advice or any other licensed financial services. Given that funderbeam is an Estonian company which is not a financial institution, and mediates funds of monetary value through a communications system, which can be exchanged for official currency, it fits neatly to the definition of a provider of alternative means of payment as stipulated in Estonian law (and confirmed by the Estonian Supreme Court): (4) A provider of services of alternative means of payment is a person who in its economic or professional activities and through a communications, transfer or clearing system buys, sells or mediates funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency, but who is not a person specified in subsection (1) or a financial institution for the purposes of the Credit Institutions Act. Also on the funderbeam website there's ample evidence of huge amounts of virtual tokens between traded, worth millions of Euros. So I ask you and the FIU: Are you going to apply the alternative means of payment law to funderbeam? If not, what legal reason do you have not to apply the law to funderbeam? If you are going to apply the law, why haven't you done so earlier? I look forward to your answers. Please also confirm receipt of this e-mail. Otto de Voogd
From: Urmas Pai To: Otto de Voogd Subject: RE: Teabenõue: Arbitrary application of the law Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 14:12:49 +0000
Dear Mr. De Voogd We have received your e-mail, but please be noted that we we will answer to it in general order since the information you are looking for can not be seen as public information (therefore not as request for public information) according to Estonian Public information act § 3. Best regards Urmas Pai Estonian Financial Intelligence Unit Tööstuse Street 52, 10416 Tallinn, Estonia tel. secretary +372 6 123 840 tel. direct +372 6 123 859 fax +372 6 123 845 urmas.pai@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee/rahapesu
From: Otto de Voogd To: Urmas Pai Date: Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 18:46:59 +0200 Subject: RE: Teabenõue: Arbitrary application of the law
Dear Mr Pai, More than 2 weeks have passed, could you give me an indication as to how much time it will take to answer my questions? Best Regards, Otto de Voogd -- GPG key fingerprint = C22C 4F08 6BA6 3ADE 5FE4 8496 23BA D351 C916 B67D
From: Urmas Pai To: Otto de Voogd Subject: RE: Teabenõue: Arbitrary application of the law Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 06:06:38 +0000
Dear Mr. De Voogd No more than 30 days from the day we received the request. Best regards Urmas Pai Estonian FIU
From: rahapesu@politsei.ee To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Vastus järelepärimisele Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:32:02 +0300 (EEST)
<snip> The document management system of the Financial Intelligence Unit has forwarded You a document "Vastus järelepärimisele" registered on 08.06.2016 with number 3.4-3/5-2. Estonian FIU Tööstuse street 52 10416 Tallinn ESTONIA phone +372 612 3840 e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee PDF Attachment
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:36:12 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele
Dear Mr. Pai and Reimann, As you well know the law of alternative means of payment does not only apply to Bitcoin. It is also not your place to assume that I meant Bitcoin, ESPECIALLY as I did not mention that in my enquiry. Please answer the enquiry as related to all forms of alternative means of payment, and state whether you think funderbeam is or is not "a (legal) person who in its economic or professional activities and through a communications, transfer or clearing system buys, sells or mediates funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency." Let's please also not pretend to be stupid and not see things, funderbeam is not a site that collects information, but a marketplace where funds can be mediated. Best Regards, Otto
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:57:48 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele
Dear Mr Pai and Reimann,
p.s. If you had made an honest effort to at the funderbeam website, you'd have seen on their "about" page:
Funderbeam is a primary and secondary market for early-stage startup investments. It makes growth capital easier to both deliver and access, across borders and without irrelevant intermediaries.
DIGITAL TOKENS & POOLED INVESTMENTS
Using advanced blockchain technology (a public ledger of transactions), investments are tokenized. Each digital token represents its owner’s rights in an investment syndicate.
As you can see this is not just an information site like you want to pretend (even though that's a strange excuse because btc.ee was just an information site that offered no functionality whatsover, but that didn't stop you from harassing me). Their website even mentions BLOCKCHAIN, i.e. the same as what used for Bitcoin.
Best regards,
Otto
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 08:33:24 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele
Dear Mr. Pai, When can I expect that you answer my questions? Best Regards, Otto
From: Urmas Pai To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 06:16:24 +0000
Dear Mr. De Voogd Not later than 08.07.2016. Best regards Urmas Pai Estonian Financial Intelligence Unit Tööstuse Street 52, 10416 Tallinn, Estonia tel. secretary +372 6 123 840 tel. direct +372 6 123 859 fax +372 6 123 845 urmas.pai@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee/rahapesu
Mr Madis Reiman sends answers as scans of printed documents, I presume in order to make sharing and posting more difficult. Another aspect showing the general dishonesty of the Estonian police.
From: rahapesu@politsei.ee To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Vastus järelepärimisele Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 16:36:58 +0300
[SNIP Estonian and Russian version] The document management system of the Financial Intelligence Unit has forwarded You a document "Vastus järelepärimisele" registered on 01.07.2016 with number 3.4-3/5-4. The document is digitally signed and can be opened by using the DigiDoc3 software which is available on the website: https://installer.id.ee/. Estonian FIU Tööstuse street 52 10416 Tallinn ESTONIA phone +372 612 3840 e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee PDF Attachment
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 16:18:08 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele
Dear Mr. Reimand, You've stated in last response that in your opinion Funderbeam tokens are not alternative means of payment as you have no evidence that tokens issued by Funderbeam can be exchanged for currency. I've attached 4 screenshots: Funderbeam0_marketplace.png - to show you were the link to their marketplace is, since you appear to have missed that. You will then need to create an account (free of charge). I realize that this requires a little bit of effort on your part to create an account, but given that it's your job to uphold Estonian law, I think it's reasonable to expect of you that you make this effort. Once you've created an account, you'll be able to see a lively market where tokens can be bought and sold. I made some screenshots for you, but you should be able to find this all by yourself: Funderbeam1_marketplace_buy.png - a screenshot of offers to buy - i.e. token holders can sell to these people. Funderbeam2_marketplace_10keurotrade.png - an offer for a trade of 10,000 Euros. Funderbeam3_marketplace_agreed_1ke_trade.png - a trade of 1,450 Euros been executed. Thus, not only can the tokens issued by Funderbeam be exchanged for an official currency (Euros), there are trades taking place that exceed the 1,000 Euro threshold set out in § 15 (8) 1). Additionally § 15 (8) 2) applies as the platform is mediating transactions between several customers. I personally bought tokens on Funderbeam and sent them money (to an account in Estonia) which they presumably sent to the person I bought the tokens from. As I see it Funderbeam fits exactly with the definition of a provider of alternative means of payment as set out in the law, which I quote here for your convenience: "§ 6. (4) A provider of services of alternative means of payment is a person who in its economic or professional activities and through a communications, transfer or clearing system buys, sells or mediates funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency, but who is not a person specified in subsection (1) or a financial institution for the purposes of the Credit Institutions Act." Funderbeam engages in economic or professional activity (this is not some little hobby like my activity was). Funderbeam uses a communications, transfer or clearing system. Funderbeam mediates funds of monetary value. Those funds can be exchanged for an official currency. On the platform itself in Estonia. Funderbeam is not a financial institution (says so on their own website - see my first e-mail on this subject). Furthermore financial obligations can be performed using Funderbeam tokens, for instance to pay for the services offered by this website: http://estonianhype.com/ (ref: "tokens traded on Funderbeam" as an accepted payment method). Additionally, I'd like to add that I am struck by the contrast with my case. In my case your department, via mr. Urmas Pai, after only seeing a webpage (a much less developed one than Funderbeam), sought very hard to apply this law to my hobby activity, even threatening me with a huge fine and prison sentence. In the Funderbeam case, you seem to try very hard NOT to apply this same law to them, even going so far as not to see things that everyone else can see with a little bit of effort (like the marketplace). I'd like to know why you are not applying the law equally to all in Estonia? And why Funderbeam is above the law? The only difference I can see, is that I am a foreigner, while Funderbeam is a company owned by a few well connected Estonians. Nevertheless I think it's unbecoming of a country that claims to live by the rule of law to apply the law unequally in such a blatant and discriminatory fashion. Please let me know if you are going to take any action in this case? If not you can be sure that I'll be using this case in my upcoming ECHR complaint against Estonia as evidence that Estonia is applying the law arbitrarily, and possibly even in a discriminatory fashion against non-Estonians. Best Regards, Otto de Voogd Attachments: Funderbeam0_marketplace.png Funderbeam1_marketplace_buy.png Funderbeam2_marketplace_10keurotrade.png Funderbeam3_marketplace_1ke_trade.png
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:44:36 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus järelepärimisele
Dear Mr. Reimand and Mr. Pai, When can I expect an answer to my e-mail below? Best Regards, Otto de Voogd
From: Urmas Pai To: Otto de Voogd Subject: RE: Vastus järelepärimisele Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:17:52 +0000
Dear Mr. De Voogd We will answer to your e-mail no later than 02.09.2016. Best regards Urmas Pai Estonian Financial Intelligence Unit Tööstuse Street 52, 10416 Tallinn, Estonia tel. secretary +372 6 123 840 tel. direct +372 6 123 859 fax +372 6 123 845 urmas.pai@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee/rahapesu
After having proved wrong their claim that those tokens were not exchangable for money, they simple avoid any concrete answer.
From: rahapesu@politsei.ee To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Vastus päringule Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 16:08:07 +0300 (EEST)
[Estonian and Russian text removed] ***************************************************** The document management system of the Financial Intelligence Unit has forwarded You a document "Vastus päringule" registered on 01.09.2016 with number 3.4-3/5-6. Please confirm the reception of the documents ASAP to the e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee Estonian FIU Tööstuse street 52 10416 Tallinn ESTONIA phone +372 612 3840 e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee PDF Attachments
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 17:14:03 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus päringule
Dear Mr. Reimand and Mr. Pai, Is the answer you sent on September 1st a joke? You completely fail to explain how the criteria set out in the law are not met, completely ignoring our previous conversation. Again the law defines alternative means of payment: (4) A provider of services of alternative means of payment is a person who in its economic or professional activities and through a communications, transfer or clearing system buys, sells or mediates funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency, but who is not a person specified in subsection (1) or a financial institution for the purposes of the Credit Institutions Act. Which part of this definition does a service that exchanges those tokens not meet? And how is exchanging those tokens different from exchanging Bitcoin? Otto de Voogd
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee,Urmas Pai Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 14:21:30 +0200 Subject: Re: Vastus päringule
Dear Mr. Reimand and Mr. Pai, When am I finally going to get a real answer to my questions about Funderbeam and their tokens, questions I have been asking since May 12th? Question that was rephrased for the 4th time in the e-mail below. We are 4 months further, when I am going to get an answer? Regards, Otto
From: Urmas Pai To: Otto de Voogd Subject: RE: Vastus päringule Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 13:14:57 +0000
Dear Mr. De Voogd We have answered to all of your e-mails since 12th of May. To your e-mail, you have sent on 1st of Septembe,r we will answer no later than 30.09.2016. Best regards Urmas Pai Estonian Financial Intelligence Unit Tööstuse Street 52, 10416 Tallinn, Estonia tel. secretary +372 6 123 840 tel. direct +372 6 123 859 fax +372 6 123 845 urmas.pai@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee/rahapesu
From: Otto de Voogd To: Urmas Pai Subject: RE: Vastus päringule Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 16:36:01 +0200
Dear Mr. Pai, The word you are looking for is "reply". You have replied to by e-mails, but you've not answered my questions. Regards, Otto de Voogd -- GPG key fingerprint = C22C 4F08 6BA6 3ADE 5FE4 8496 23BA D351 C916 B67D
It's now Marget Lundava's turn to reply, she makes up some new rules that are not even in the law.
From: rahapesu@politsei.ee To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Vastus täiendavale päringule Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 16:16:41 +0300 (EEST)
The document management system of the Financial Intelligence Unit has forwarded You a document "Vastus täiendavale päringule" registered on 29.09.2016 with number 3.4-3/5-10. Please confirm the reception of the documents ASAP to the e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee Estonian FIU Tööstuse street 52 10416 Tallinn ESTONIA phone +372 612 3840 e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee Dishonest answer from Marget Lundava
From: Otto de Voogd To: rahapesu@politsei.ee, Urmas Pai, Arnold Tenusaar Subject: Re: Vastus täiendavale päringule Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:15:27 +0200
Please also forward this e-mail to Mrs Lundava. Dear Mrs Marget Lundava, Regarding your answer to my request regarding Funderbeam OÜ. You state: "To our knowledge tokens do not have value apart from rights of a member of a specific syndicate. The fact that that a part in a specific investment syndicate might have financial value, does not make the token representing this part to be means of payment." If that were the criteria then Bitcoin would not fall under that law either, as Bitcoin tokens by themselves do not have any value at all, i.e. there is nothing backing up their value. Tokens traded on Funderbeam on the contrary DO have value, as there is a company with assets behind them backing up their value. Also the law does not mention the criteria you suggested. This law which the Supreme Court considered to be very clear (as you said yourself) and decided to uphold in its full glory, is indeed particularly clear on this point. For your convenience I quote the relevant law again: "Par 6 (4) A provider of services of alternative means of payment is a person who in its economic or professional activities and through a communications, transfer or clearing system buys, sells or mediates funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency, but who is not a person specified in subsection (1) or a financial institution for the purposes of the Credit Institutions Act." A provider of services of alternative means of payment is defined by law when the following conditions are met: 1. Has "economic or professional activities". Funderbeam clearly performs economic or professional activities. 2. Uses a "communications, transfer or clearing system". Given the website and use of the blockchain, this condition is met too. 3. It "buys, sells or mediates". You can buy or sell tokens and Funderbeam mediates between buyers and sellers. 4. "Funds of monetary value by which financial obligations can be performed or which can be exchanged for an official currency". This is also the case, as I showed in my e-mail dating August 3rd 2016. However you seem to suggest that point 4 is not the case, so let me elaborate. Note that it says funds of MONETARY value, i.e. they are worth something that can be expressed in Euros or any other currency. Like any financial asset the tokens traded on Funderbeam also have a monetary value, the fact that there is a market where this monetary value is determined is proof of that. Or are you denying that tokens traded on Funderbeam have any value that can be expressed in Euros or any other currency? The condition set out in the law, is that these tokens can be exchanged for an official currency. Funderbeam tokens can be exchanged for an official currency, as I showed in my e-mail dated August 3rd 2016. They can also be used to perform financial obligations (See same e-mail). Or are you denying that tokens traded on Funderbeam can be exchanged for an official currency? No part of Par 6 (4) excludes "rights/shares in a syndicate" from being subject to this law. Contrary to your statement the fact that a part in a specific investment syndicate has financial value that can be monetized (exchanged for official currency), clearly makes it fall under the definition set in Par 6 (4) of the MLTFPA. The argument you have provided to justify your non-action is patently wrong, and not supported by any possible reading of par 6 (4). You can not just make up new criteria arbitrarily, especially when they are not even mentioned in the law. I understand that the investors behind Funderbeam, are politically well connected and that you are unwilling to apply the law to them as you did to me. But if you are in law enforcement it's your job to apply the law to all equally. Thus I reiterate my request that the FIU apply par 6 (4) of the MLTFPA to Funderbeam OR provide a legally sound argument BASED ON ACTUAL LAW as to why Funderbeam is being exempted from this particular law. Yours Sincerely Otto de Voogd Bitcoin Refugee
Back to Madis Reimand completely refusing to answer any questions. As they can not advance any reasoned argument that stands scrutiny, it is more than obvious now that the law is applied unequally in Estonia.
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:21:32 +0300 (EEST) From: rahapesu@politsei.ee To: Otto de Voogd Subject: Vastus järelepärimisele
The document management system of the Financial Intelligence Unit has forwarded You a document "Vastus järelepärimisele" registered on 28.10.2016 with number 3.4-3/5-13. Estonian FIU Tööstuse street 52 10416 Tallinn ESTONIA phone +372 612 3840 e-mail: rahapesu@politsei.ee www.politsei.ee Non answer from Madis Reimand
